Autor Thema: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet  (Gelesen 14710 mal)

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Offline Artist

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Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« am: 30.September.2012, 23:15 »
Luthier hat ausführlich geantwortet.

Offline Nephris

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #1 am: 30.September.2012, 23:25 »
Ich setze die Fragen dennoch mal hier rein.




Good afternoon everyone. Sorry it took so long to get to your questions. Finally got some spare time on a quiet weekend. Went through a bunch of them, still have a lot left. Hopefully will get to them tomorrow.

I also answered a bunch of Russian-language questions on sukhoi.ru. Sorry, no energy to translate them into English. Hopefully someone might help me out and provide a translation for me.
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthrea...72#post1902572

Here are the answers to your questions.

Quote:
The single player experience in Cliffs of Dover has been roundly criticized as being decidedly below standard. Can you tell us specifically in what ways you think it is lacking, and explain what you intend to do to improve it?
First of all, I disagree with it being “below standard”. Your definition of single-player standard is probably different from mine. If you expect Mass Effect or Skyrim, you’re barking up the wrong tree.
Cliffs of Dover was intended to be a sandbox game more than anything, expansive, open, giving complete freedom to the players. If you’ll remember, the original Il-2 owed much of its success to user-made content. We aimed for the same with Cliffs of Dover. Instead of building complex single-player content in-house, we gave the tools to the community. Cliffs of Dover has a much better mission builder with scripting support, supports complex moddable briefings and debriefings, and so on.
Unfortunately 3rd party support never materialized the way we hoped it would, and we ourselves cannot at this point go back and redo single player.
Still, I strongly disagree with your criticism of the single-player. The two campaigns, quick mission builder, and the full mission builder offer a lot in terms of single-player. Standard? I’ve played plenty of AAA games where the entire single-player content is under 20 hours with 0 replay value, and I didn’t even feel like finishing the entire thing. At the same time I’ve logged way more than 20 hours in quick mission builder alone. What does that say about industry standards?


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1. Please could you look into the netcode, its killing Multiplayer servers.
Latest patch should take us closer.


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2. Could you reconsider your position on Co-ops, again this is preventing a lot of people from wanting to continue using your product now and in the future.
Redoing co-op is a huge task. We are a business. We have to make a profit somewhere somehow. We cannot keep pumping resources and releasing free patches for Cliffs of Dover forever.
And regarding not using our products in the future if we do not redo co-op now. I believe the majority in this community actually will. If we offer a much more comprehensive co-op experience in a future product, and especially if such an experience still allows you a trip back in time to fly some Spits and 109s over the Channel, well, I really hope that most people will want to get the sequel.
To reiterate - I've never said that we'll never address co-op, I've only said we cannot do it within the Cliffs of Dover project.


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3. It was claimed that within recent patches a 50% performance increase was gained but as of yet I have seen no evidence to support this, in fact my performance actually dropped whilst at the same time features were taken out of the game. Could you tell me how I go about getting this performance increase or what system I should use to get the best out of CLOD, I currently have a i72600k running at 4.7Ghz, 2x GTX680 in SLI and 16GB of DDR3 at 1600mhz.
There are plenty of people on the forums reporting a significant performance boost.
You should be getting excellent FPS in the game with your top of the line system.


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4. Could you tell us how you test your alpha/beta patches before release, many of them have broken has much as they have fixed and your customers are left scratching their heads wondering how you could of missed some of the most obvious bugs, such as the hurricane not starting. Also could you tell me what online servers you or your employees use to test the game.
Ooh somebody’s real grouchy.


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Can the sequel be merged with COD like the original il2 series and if it can will we get to test features that will be appearing in the sequel I.e. Weather etc.
This question Ilya! Please confirm that the sequel will be able to be merged with our current game as in all previous IL2 releases.

Definitely not planning to release any sequel features as add-ons for Cliffs of Dover, sorry.


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Also, please, please introduce a coop mode similar to the one we had in IL2 as you are loosing potential sales without this!
As I said earlier, this just doesn’t make sense financially. Redoing co-op in the way that the community wants cannot possibly be profitable within Cliffs of Dover. At this point there’s just no way that any given feature can lead to any kind of profits.


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How many people are there working on IL-2 Sturmovik series now?
Slightly over 50.


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Why were the Flyable G50 and Br20 modelled for CoD, when they only played a very minimal role, and more common aircraft left out, such as a flyable Do17 and indeed even the CR42?
Was it originally intended to move to the Med theatre after the BoB?

I was not a part of the decision making process about any flyable aircraft in Cliffs of Dover so I cannot answer this question.

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Have you addressed the bugged Mixture issues in the RAF types?
Have you addressed the Engine Overheat issues in the RAF types?
Have you addressed the issue of the Spitfire under performing in terms of relative top speed compared with the 109 (e.g. see graphs in 1st post in this recent thread http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=34115)? Thank you.

We keep working on aircraft performance, and hopefully the most recent patch showed some improvement in that respect.


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Would it be possible to hand out information on how to handle each aircraft the proper way?
after 1,5 years, there is still too much confusion about the different types of planes, and how they perform the best way,and how to get the most out of them.
For example every month there is another thread about the prop pitch management of the 109, and even among the experienced 109pilots there doesnt seem to be a consensus on whats the best way...
for example: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=34328
there is historical information around in the net and in books, but we dont know whats implemented in game, what works best, and how it is intended to work...

Our goal has always been that the actual aircraft flight manuals should be used with Cliffs of Dover. If that’s not the case, the only people that know the guts well enough to write a flight manual are our aircraft programmers – and in that very case their efforts are better spent bringing the performance in line with the actual flight manuals.
In other words, there’s never a situation where writing a flight manual for Cliffs of Dover is a good idea.


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1. Can you tell us anything about the forthcoming sequel and where you intend to take the series after that?
I cannot talk about the sequel until the official announcement, sorry.


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2. Do you consider that you've achieved about as much as you can, performance wise, with the game engine at the moment and that people's systems now have to be improved to improve performance?
Yes, we’re pretty of the same opinion. We’re not doing further optimization at this time, we’re improving features instead. Specifically landscape geometry and clouds for starters, but all that is for the sequels.


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1. Is going to be more view distance whitouut touching much the performance? I think in the first versions the view dstance was more.
It’s really hard to compare versions, too much has changed. I’m not sure if we can do anything to drastically improve performance as related to view distance at this time, sorry.


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1. Why was Clod released (in the condition it was in)?

We had to release on the announced release date. Never any question about that on any levels.


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2. Have you had serious problems re-writing the various code routines?
As clearly shown by some of our beta patches in the past, no, of course not, why would you ever think that?


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3. Do you still have some of the original engine coders?
Yes. We even still have the core of the original 2001 Il-2 team working on the products.


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4. Do you have anybody responsible for 'gameplay?' - serious question.
Yes, but not with Cliffs of Dover at this time. Honest answer.


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5. Do you think releases (both game and patches) have been handled competently?
Well, it was either test with the community, or keep the patches brewing internally with tests taking much longer. If we had done this, the community would have imploded months ago being torn between the latest conspiracy theory of us closing down, and screams of "where's the promised patch give it to us now show us your progress".

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6. Do you think the strong criticisms of Clod, on a forum such as this, are fair and reasonable?
I do think that people that post on the forums are naturally much more passionate and particular about the game than the average player. I do believe that we deserve most of the criticism that we get, if not always the tone in which it is offered. So, that covers fair.
Whether it’s reasonable is a more complex question to answer. The vocal minority always claims (and sincerely believes) that they represent the silent majority. We have our own opinion of what the silent majority wants however, and that often clashes with the forum consensus. At other times forum criticism can be unreasonable simply because some forum posters just don’t understand the simple realities of running a business.
So, in short, forum criticism is almost always fair, but not always reasonable.


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1. will this game ever run good on windows xp using dx9? 'good' defined as 30 avg fps on black death track.
That’s quite an interesting way to define “good” performance. Black Death was never intended as a 30 FPS benchmark goal. It was rather intended as an extreme way to bring any system to its knees.

Just upgrade to Win 7, please.


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2. will you ever consider getting rid of steam and going to hyper-lobby format?
No.


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3. what pc components, drivers, supporting software...etc. do you now recommend to run the game optimally, given so much of the code has changed since original release date since the game was first spec'd out.
I cannot answer that question off the top of my head, sorry

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4. was the epilipsy filter a fraud? honestly, it was so absurd. very hard to believe in hindsight.
No that was indeed a real situation, a real publisher requirement, and our desperate attempt to address it at the last second.


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5. surprise, did you know that B6 doesn't even like CLOD?
Why would that be a surprise? I know very few people that, you know, love love Cliffs of Dover.


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6. did you hire any of the Daidalos Team member to work on CLOD when you put out those help wanted advertisements a while back?
We need full time employees in our Moscow office. Most of our current employees only speak Russian, so new employees have to be fluent in Russian as well. I’m not aware of anyone at Daidalos who fits all those criteria.


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7. will the final patch include moving dogfight server and rearm, refuel and repair capability?
Of course not, who ever said that it would?


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8. after the final patch, where do we go to join 128 player battles online?
We don’t run our own servers if that’s what you ask.


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9. why did oleg leave? the real reason.
The only person who should ever answer this question is Oleg himself.


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10. if you could do it all over again, would you?
Yes, just differently.


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Have you seen how many times the same questions are asked, and if so
Why are they not being answered unambiguously, or a way that appears deceptive?
Why is there so much emphasis placed on the sequels process when most want CoD fixed?
Because we’re a business. Our goal is to make money. Fixing Cliffs of Dover does not bring in any money, and it has not pretty much from the start. Even if we spend another year working on nothing but Cliffs of Dover and release a super-mega-ultra update with co-op, blackjack, and hookers, how many copies do you honestly believe the game will sell?

Then the entire team can happily go and look for a new job, preferably in a third world country where it’ll be easier to hide from our investors.


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Can you please open the game up to third parties and modders to fix.
The game has amazing potential, but is obviously quite broken at the moment.

This has always been our plan, and we still cannot get around to it. We obviously cannot just release the source code, and making end-user tools is not something that we have the resources to do at the moment. This fact greatly upsets me.


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Are you ever going to fix the severe particle effects fps issues without resorting to making the effect look like it was made with lego?
(blows a raspberry).


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My questions would be all about the main map itself (many others are pointing out all the other issues, no need to add anything there) but they would need elaboration and this is not the place. So I will be short:
1. As a matter of principle would you be OK with one or two "communities" (actually myself and some others) working to correct the many flaws, lacks, incoherences, wrongs, missing elements etc of the MAIN map, under your control, when it is possible (even if still far away, the work itself will take probably more than one year anyway)?
2. An idea when this could happen (granted as long as it is not "never" the question is rather rhetorical...I suspect the answer)?

See above about tools. Map-making tools are number one on our list of end-user tools to release, whenever it is we’ll be able to.


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1. What specifically is preventing clouds from being depicted in a volume and quality that is competitive with other sims currently on the market?
Are you saying there is a sim out there today that has clouds of better quality at greater volume, and offering better performance? I.e. matches all three criteria, quality, volume, and FPS?
Because I know there isn’t.


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2. What is your assessment of the quality of current AI speech routines. What if anything do you intend to do to improve them in the future?
AI speech does less than half of what we wanted it to do for Cliffs of Dover. Unfortunately the person responsible for the task left without completing it and we’re still trying to pick up the pieces.


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Will the sequel have AI comms that work properly and have a level of detail/available commands that is closer to what we had in IL-1946 series. Offline play in even the exceptionally good Desastersoft campaigns is badly stifled by the extremely limited AI comms system we are stuck with in Cliffs.
Yes it will.


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Will it ever be possible to add collisions to trees?
This murders FPS. We have too many trees.
We can only do it on a map that’s not as tree-y as the Channel.


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1. Can we ever expect authentic looking cloud cover and weather environments that actually effect gameplay?
That’s what we’re working on right now, for the sequel.


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2. Lastly has there been any progress on making the AI work and fly like we would expect or are we stuck with either barrel rolls or no reaction at all?
It already does a lot more than barrel rolls or no reaction.


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1. How do you expect your current business model to deliver a profit while using the traditional il-2, addon every 2-3 years approach, and do you plan to offer DLC content in the future?
Add-ons every 2-3 years has never been our business model, and we've evolved even further away from Il-2 lately.


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2. Why are weathering layers of skins unable to be packed in such a way that they can be modified or improved by users?
We hated seeing horrible flat user-made skins everywhere in the original Il-2, so we settled on the technology that keeps the lower-end of the quality bar firmly set where no user effort can nudge it lower – even if that means also setting the ceiling for great skin makers.


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1. Are the team hoping to continue the series (all being well) as was mentioned earlier in the development cycle?
Yes


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2. Are you going to be in a position to give the planned overdue announcement regarding future development’s any time soon?
I hope so.


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Can we increase even more the degree of realism e.g. available & working aircraft systems?
Just a side note, please remove the ever icing clouds, most of them are not, especially flying low, it's not that often sub zero.

We are seriously addressing our approach to modeling various systems. A lot of the stuff that we spent so much effort on with Cliffs of Dover ended up being a dud, no one wants it, no one uses it. At the same time a lot of systems people clearly want and need are not modeled with enough details.
So do expect a more sane approach in the sequels.

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1. Is it possible to expand on the not before seen special feature that was mentioned? Will it come for the sequel or will it not come out now?
Sequel


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2. Any news on how the vehicle control will be implemented? Will that ship with the sequel?
We still don’t know what to do with the feature commercially.


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1. Is it save to say that the the sequel will, besides adding new content, fix all major gameplay, graphic ,multiplayer issues we currently have?
Since I fear we may differ on our definitions of major issues, I’d rather not commit myself to that.
Obviously no one here wants to repeat the Cliffs of Dover release fiasco. We really do want to get it right next time.


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2. Will there be a solid documentation for engine management, level bombing etc.?
We are planning for an in-flight checklist feature, for starters.


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3. What happend to the offical announcement for the sequel?
Delayed due to external circumstances. Not under my control at all.


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4. Is someone still working on improving and/or adding new/better sounds?
Yes, that’s our sound designer’s only job.


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You said earlier:'we really want to release at least the map-making SDK to the public “as is”, which is why they’re not covered by the next patch v. sequels discussion.'
If this is released will it be possible for an organised community effort to improve certain elements of the main COD map or will the sdk be only for creating new small maps?

Yes, the SDK will allow people to edit existing maps.



Quote:
As you probably know quite a few people are disappointed with the current map and feel it could be made better by making changes to tree coverage/ hedgerows/etc. These would not be difficult changes technically, but would be time consuming and labour intensive - and therefore ideal for talented community members to undertake whilst the developers focus on the sequel (almost like a Team Daidolos for COD).
If the choice is between NO further work on the map OR allowing an (organised) community effort to make improvements (with your final approval regarding quality) would you be agreeable to this happening?

See above.


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Videos from the Igromir pre-release version of COD seem to show a better implementation of the map. Were changes made after Igromir for performance reasons, and if so can those changes be easily reversed?
The entire year before the release is really hazy for me. I cannot say what changes were made to the map after Igromir. I want to say it shipped largely the same. If anything, we might have reduced the number of smaller trees and bushes around the landscape to improve performance, and adding them back would be a quick, fatal fix.

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May I expect a sequel including a comprehensive manual for the DM, FM, FMB, including scripting?
Probably not comprehensive enough. See our manuals for the old Il-2 products.

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Can you comment at this time on whether the next sequel will be Moscow as previously stated, whether Stalingrad will be a separate sequel to follow, or how the MMO option will fit into the series?
I cannot talk about the sequel until the official announcement, sorry.

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2. How about flak control? it's for the sequel?
Yes, not for Cliffs of Dover.

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I'd be interested to know if you've addressed the aircraft visibility (or invisibility) issue? IMO, the problem has all but killed the game. Whatever the reason for it, it doesn't really work in a simulation. You simply can't shoot what you can't see.
We hope it’s been addressed with the latest patch.

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Precisely how many separate projects does Maddox Games intend to work on at one time? Is the rumoured MMO to be developed by MG also?
I cannot talk about the sequel until the official announcement, sorry.
Do want to add however that the occasional rumors that pop up around here simply mystify me. Why would anyone go through the trouble of doing all that? Lame and so very very creepy.

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Luthier, will you continue to support CLOD independently with updates 'AFTER' the release of a sequel?
No. As I stated previously, this current patch, once pushed out to steam, will be our final update to Cliffs of Dover proper. All future work will be done within the framework of the sequels.

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1. Why are there no plans to sort the problem of not being able to use the main componant of this game (the Channel Map) for coops?
Please see above.

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2. Will the terrible weathering on Allied aircraft be fixed?
It’s not terrible.

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Hello Luthier, my question is simple, shall have we the correction of the bug of rear-view mirrors on the English planes for the next patch.
We “almost” got it into the release candidate, but decided not to delay it because of the mirrors. Really hoping to get it working for the final release.

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1. Will dev fix the pop up trees and buildings or provide greater view distance for people with high end cards?
2. Why do you have pop up buildings and not fade in.
People in bombers can't fly higher than 3'000m because targets pop up seconds before they must drop bombs.

We are aware of the issue, especially in relation to bombers.

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When will you fix the service ceilings in aircraft? The 109 is not able to reach 10000 meters. The real ones do.
Please see the most recent patch notes.

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You say you are 'not proud' of Cliffs of Dover' and fair enough you should not be.
Will you be offering a discount on the sequel, to people who bought Cliffs of Dover, as an apology?

Seriously?

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1. Will the lack of a decent Co-op mode be put right in the patch or the Sequel.
Please see above for my thoughts on co-op.

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2. Will the Channel map be available for Co-op in the online mode.
It’s available now.

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Are you working on the bombers bombsigths? The german one dont work completely , (the triangle that shows when the bomb drop occur isnt working)
We’ll see if we can get this in. The list of issues is dozens of pages long, and the amount of time to do everything is almost astronomical. We’re tying to prioritize.

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I know you stated the next CloD patch will be the last, so that means any fixes, advances and such into the game engine that come from the sequel will not be translated at some time or another back into CloD? Will Clod be completely abandoned in whatever state the final patch leaves it with no hope small updates, etc?
Why would you think that? We’ve never done that before, and I’ve always stated that our plans remain the same. There were many issues in the original IL-2 in 2001. After a few updates to the original, Forgotten Battles was released and there were no more updates to the original Il-2. That doesn’t mean it was abandoned however! You can still play all of the original Il-2 content with 1946, all carried over and updated with the rest of the engine.

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Any chance of stopping the trees and their attendant shadows looking like they're having an epileptic fit?
I would think most of the community should know by now that mentioning epilepsy to the team is a very, very bad idea.

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If your team cannot fix this first game, and give us what was originally promised/expected, what is there to show us that the new game will be any better, and worth our support, dedication, and more importantly, our money?
Don’t give us your money on day 1.
« Letzte Änderung: 30.September.2012, 23:34 von Nephris »

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #2 am: 01.Oktober.2012, 01:07 »
If your team cannot fix this first game, and give us what was originally promised/expected, what is there to show us that the new game will be any better, and worth our support, dedication, and more importantly, our money?

Don’t give us your money on day 1.

N E V E R   E V E R - P R O M I S E D  :P

 

Offline Deichwart

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #3 am: 01.Oktober.2012, 07:15 »
Verstehe ich die 5. Antwort richtig? CloD wird nicht mit den Nachfolgern kompatibel sein? (so wie bei der alten Il2Serie)
Das Gegenteil von "gut" ist "gut gemeint".

Offline ulyssesOne

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #4 am: 01.Oktober.2012, 08:04 »
Naja ... die Frage nach "merged installation" ist schlicht ausweichend beantwortet, hinterlässt aber auf jeden Fall einen sehr faden Beigeschmack.


Releasetagkauf? ... Nö nicht noch einmal zum Vollpreis ... sollen Sie lieber schrottige Apps für iOS und Android entwickeln, als weiter meine Lieblingssim zu zerlegen, bis ich gar keine Freude mehr am Fliegen habe. EDIT: .... ... okay okay .... kleiner Ausrutscher ... SORRY ... aber wenn die CloDo-Inhalte nicht im neuen Prodkut wiederzufinden sind, dann finde ich das echt bescheuert und werde mir den Kauf ernsthaft überlegen, schließlich gibt er offen zu, dass CloDo mit dem nächsten (eigentlich auch wirklich einzigen) Finalpatch über Steam entwicklungstechn. EndofLife ist, dass SDK für Drittanbieter kommt auch nicht ... ergo, da wird auch nichts mehr zum guten gemoddet. Ausserdem ruht man sich viel zu oft, auf dem ach so tollen Erw. Editor aus, nur gab es für den nie eine offizielle brauchbare Doku und das Scripting hält 90% der alten Mapbauer eher auf, als es Nutzen für die Community bringt, zuviele Basics müssen jetzt per Scripting eingebracht werden, weil man sich nicht die Zeit nehmen wollte, ganz rudimentäre Funktionen in ein paar zusätzlichen Masken unterzubringen. Selbst ein 10 Jahre altes IL2 macht da vieles besser. Versteht mich nicht falsch ... wer Scripten kann, der bekommt ganz tolle Sachen hin und viele Scripter bieten ihr wissen auch an, aber warum kann ich Flieger nicht wie in IL2 1946 10 Minuten später starten lassen und dies bei der betroffenen Gruppe einstellen, warum kann man keine simplen Trigger über die grafische Oberfläche einbringen und und und ... meine Güte ... ist ungefähr so ... wie wenn MS Access heute noch so aussehen und funktionieren würde, wie seinerzeit Multiplan oder dbase.  :P
« Letzte Änderung: 01.Oktober.2012, 08:21 von ulyssesOne »
We ask you to react professionally – exactly this type of reaction will help us to fix everything as soon as possible.

Offline FREDDO

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #5 am: 01.Oktober.2012, 10:44 »
naja, ist doch eigentlich gar nicht schlecht, zwischen den Zeilen gelesen steht da das was ich hören wollte. Der Inhalt von COD wird wohl in BOM drin sein, so wie es bei allen bisherigen IL2 Versionen ja auch war. Der Rest ist bla bla und angesichts dessen das die mit Sicherheit Verträge haben über deren Inhalt sie (noch) nicht reden können (dürfen), kann ich seine Antworten nachvollziehen. Er schreibt ja auch klar und deutlich das sie releasen mussten zu dem Termin, was sicher auch vertraglich mit UBI so festgelegt und ohnehin letzte Frist war, siehe auch der Punkt mit dem Epilepsiefilter, wo er klar zugibt das es Bedingung war so etwas zu haben, (was ja aber nicht bedeuten muss das er effektiv ist und funktioniert) so wurde er halt in der "letzten Sekunde" gemacht um die Bedingung irgendwie zu erfüllen.  Ich möchte gar nicht wissen wie die gerödelt haben in den letzten Wochen vor dem finalen Termin und sicher wird so ein Fiasco nicht nocheinmal so passieren.

Bin gespannt auf die offizielle Ankündigung von BOM, dann wird sich sicher noch einiges aufklären.
« Letzte Änderung: 01.Oktober.2012, 13:42 von FREDDO »

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #6 am: 01.Oktober.2012, 11:19 »
... Der Inhalt von COD wird wohl in BOB drin sein, ...


Zum Beispiel dieser Inhalt?

Fortgeschrittene Physik Seitenwinde, Aufwinde, Turbulenzen, Regen, Nebel ...

Damit wurde für dieses Cliffs of Dover geworben, nicht für eine Fortsetzung irgendwie oder irgendwann. Und ist immernoch nachzulesen hier:

http://il2sturmovik.ubi.com/cliffs-of-dover/de-DE/game-info/key-features/




Offline I./NJG6_HeTzeR

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #7 am: 01.Oktober.2012, 11:21 »
Muss ich überlesen haben, aber wo steht bitte das der Inhalt aus CloD im Sequel drinn ist?
Ich ahne ja, dass 1C erst mit der Sequel anfängt einen richtigen IL2 Nachfolger zu machen. Also wie wir es kennen, immer mehr neue Flugzeuge, Maps etc.
Demnach gibts in Moskau nur ne 109F und Stuka und der Russe hat seine Ratas Il2s und ich meine ne Yak gesehen zu haben ;)

Offline Diebels74

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #8 am: 01.Oktober.2012, 12:54 »
Also man kann so einiges in Luthiers Worte hineininterpretieren, aber beruhigen tun sie damit niemanden. Für mich klingt das quasi nach einem wirtschaftlichen Harakiri, denn wenn sich jeder verschreckte und enttäuschte Fan erstmal mit dem Kauf des Sequels zurückhält, sehen die Vorbestellzahlen und die Zahlen am Erstverkaufstag so mies aus, dass womöglich der/die Publisher gleich in Panik den Stecker ziehen. Auch kann es für so ein Produkt nicht wirklich förderlich sein, wenn alle erstmal abwarten, bis es auf dem Wühltisch zu haben ist, dann ist mit Sicherheit auch jeder Support, geschweige denn ein Nachfolger oder Erweiterungen gestorben. Deadlines hin und her, ich kann aber auch noch nicht die Tüte Milch verkaufen, wenn sie noch in der Kuh steckt. Hier läuft einiges mächtig schief und ich mache mir echt Gedanken, denn die Ansätze von CloD sind genial, wäre schade, wenn sowas in der Versenkung verschwinden würde. Ich werde mir zwar zu 90% den Nachfolger kaufen, aber vermutlich weder vorbestellen, noch am Releastag. Ich werde erstmal abwarten, was in den Foren so geschrieben wird, auch wenns schwer fällt. Ich muß ehrlich zugeben, ich bin von den meisten der Antworten enttäuscht, wenn auch nicht mehr überrascht.  :-[ :-[ :-[

Greetz
Diebels

Offline FREDDO

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #9 am: 01.Oktober.2012, 13:41 »
Zitat
... If we offer a much more comprehensive co-op experience in a future product, and especially if such an experience still allows you a trip back in time to fly some Spits and 109s over the Channel, well, I really hope that most people will want to get the sequel.
To reiterate - I've never said that we'll never address co-op, I've only said we cannot do it within the Cliffs of Dover project. ...
 
   ::)

Zitat
Can the sequel be merged with COD like the original il2 series and if it can will we get to test features that will be appearing in the sequel I.e. Weather etc.
This question Ilya! Please confirm that the sequel will be able to be merged with our current game as in all previous IL2 releases.

Definitely not planning to release any sequel features as add-ons for Cliffs of Dover, sorry.
   ;) nicht als Add On für COD

Zitat
How do you expect your current business model to deliver a profit while using the traditional il-2, addon every 2-3 years approach, and do you plan to offer DLC content in the future?
Add-ons every 2-3 years has never been our business model, and we've evolved even further away from Il-2 lately.
  Stimmt waren immer eigenständige Spiele und keine Add ons... aber mit dem kompletten Inhalt des Vorgängers.

Zitat
I know you stated the next CloD patch will be the last, so that means any fixes, advances and such into the game engine that come from the sequel will not be translated at some time or another back into CloD? Will Clod be completely abandoned in whatever state the final patch leaves it with no hope small updates, etc?
Why would you think that? We’ve never done that before, and I’ve always stated that our plans remain the same. There were many issues in the original IL-2 in 2001. After a few updates to the original, Forgotten Battles was released and there were no more updates to the original Il-2. That doesn’t mean it was abandoned however! You can still play all of the original Il-2 content with 1946, all carried over and updated with the rest of the engine.
  ;) 

Meiner Meinung nach haben die sich mit COD und dem damals geplanten Inhalt mächtig übernommen, dann sind auch noch ein paar wichtige Leute weggelaufen und der per Vertrag mit UBI (Entwicklungsfinanzierung, ggfls. Strafzahlungen bei weiteren Verzögerungen etc.)festgelegte fixe Liefertermin stand an. Da haben sie das Beste draus gemacht aus dem was halt so halbwegs lief und irgendwie funktionierte.

Der Kern der alten Mannschaft aus 2001 ist noch da, sie haben das nötigste ausgebessert und werden COD aus wirtschaftlichen Gründen abschreiben (müssen). Ubi ist zukünftig hoffentlich ganz weit weg und die werden BOM sicher nur dann rausgeben wenn es wirklich das bringt was sie versprechen. Wie die es geschafft haben finanziell zu überleben und die Entwicklung von BOM voranzutreiben bleibt unklar, aber es scheint bisher zu funktionieren.

Wer jedoch darauf setzt für COD ohne weitere Kosten das zu bekommen was einst versprochen wurde wird wohl enttäuscht bleiben.
Ich habe zwar nur etwas mehr als 100 Stunden in COD verbracht, aber die haben mir genug Freude gebracht um zu sagen der Kaufpreis hat sich für mich rentiert. Daher wird BOM gekauft. Zumal ich oft viel mehr Geld ausgebe für anderen Quatsch der weniger bringt.

Offline FG28_Kodiak

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #10 am: 01.Oktober.2012, 16:19 »
Stimmt waren immer eigenständige Spiele und keine Add ons... aber mit dem kompletten Inhalt des Vorgängers.
Zitat
Stimmt so nicht Pazifikfighters hatte nichts von den Vorgängern lies sich aber mit Forgetten Battles mergen. Es gab auch ein Addon und zwar die Pe-2. Erst 1946 enthielt alles.

Zitat
Meiner Meinung nach haben die sich mit COD und dem damals geplanten Inhalt mächtig übernommen, dann sind auch noch ein paar wichtige Leute weggelaufen und der per Vertrag mit UBI (Entwicklungsfinanzierung, ggfls. Strafzahlungen bei weiteren Verzögerungen etc.)festgelegte fixe Liefertermin stand an. Da haben sie das Beste draus gemacht aus dem was halt so halbwegs lief und irgendwie funktionierte.
Nicht UBI war der Hauptfinanzier sondern 1C Softclub und 1C wollte den Release.

Offline Sturmgeist

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #11 am: 01.Oktober.2012, 20:56 »
wie habe ich hier einmal im forum gelesen?

Zitat
"aufgrund unserer dramatischen fehlentscheidungen halten wir unsere abschaffung für gerechtfertig" ist leider einer der seltensten sätze der weltgeschichte.

für mich hört sich das ganze interview nach einem schuldeingeständnis an, mit dem gleichzeitigen unterschwelligen unwillen etwas verantwortung und entgegenkommen der community gegenüber zu zeigen. jedes mal wenn eine frage kommt, die ihm nicht passt, weil die antwort fehler bei der entwicklung und der organisation offenlegen würde, kommt eine trotzreaktion ala "blowing a raspberry".
Du wurdest gevulcht? Bedauerlich...

Offline ZG15_Axel

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #12 am: 01.Oktober.2012, 21:24 »
Quote:
I know you stated the next CloD patch will be the last, so that means any fixes, advances and such into the game engine that come from the sequel will not be translated at some time or another back into CloD? Will Clod be completely abandoned in whatever state the final patch leaves it with no hope small updates, etc?

Why would you think that? We’ve never done that before, and I’ve always stated that our plans remain the same. There were many issues in the original IL-2 in 2001. After a few updates to the original, Forgotten Battles was released and there were no more updates to the original Il-2. That doesn’t mean it was abandoned however! You can still play all of the original Il-2 content with 1946, all carried over and updated with the rest of the engine.

Sieht für mich so aus als ob das alte Businessmodel weiter betrieben wird.

/Axel

Offline I./ZG15 Steven McWayne

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #13 am: 01.Oktober.2012, 23:22 »
...
Ich habe dieses Fuck Spiel beim release für 50 Tacken gekauft.
Spielzeit?
39 Stunden
Il2 + Addons, Spielzeit?
4 Jahre.
QL Community + div. Geschwader?
Ist voll im Arsch, quasi nicht mehr existent, im TS sieht man immer dieselben wenigen die noch IL2 Spielen und noch weniger die sich Cliffs antun.
Wer kauft sich da den noch den Nachfolger bei Erscheinen? Sollen die lieber per Kickstarter weiterentwickeln.
Der Kommentar über die Spielerskins ist auch lachhaft. Es gibt soviele Spieler die Stunden mit dem erstellen des eigenen Skins verbringen.

Varrattu

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #14 am: 02.Oktober.2012, 00:49 »
Hier noch eine weitere "Botschaft" von Herrn Luthier am 01.10.2012:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=465704&postcount=88

Finally a comment that got to me. Today's a bad day after all.

It goes without saying for me, and that's why it might be hard to gather that from my reply, but it's obviously OUR fault for single-player being what it is and 3rd party support not showing up.

Your general criticism is spot on. We shipped a product that had too many technical issues for us to really focus on finer elements of gameplay. There had never been a point, we're not even there today, where we could sit back, look at the code, and say, hell, what a great foundation, let's build a great game on top of it.

The GUI especially is our Achilles heel. Like I wrote earlier in the thread, somebody somewhere before I ever showed up chose to make it in a horrible clumsy environment called WPF. By the time I showed up it was too late to go back, and going forward proved extremely painful. Each new screen took forever, everything was clunky, tiny changes or bug fixes required insane amounts of effort, and in the end it took a tremendous painful effort to reach the decidedly insufficient GUI that we have today.

It's extremely painful and frustrating for everyone involved. Believe me.


Offline JG53Frankyboy

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #15 am: 02.Oktober.2012, 10:29 »
für mich ist die Sache somit geklärt, es gibt für CoD nichts neues bezüglich Benutzeroberfläche/-menü, COOP-Modus und FMB. Also wird sich dessen Nutzung auf ein paar Runden Bomberfliegen auf den 'typischen' Servern beschränken. Also abwarten was dieses Sequel bringen wird.

Witzig fand ich Luthiers Aussage über steuerbare Fahrzeuge :D

Offline FREDDO

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #16 am: 02.Oktober.2012, 14:29 »
COD ist als solches entwicklungstechnisch in der Sackgasse gelandet oder anders gesagt am Ende! Ja klar und das wussten wir doch schon seit mind. 4 Monaten.
Die haben im Grunde vor Release gewusst das es eine Totgeburt wird und vermutlich auch bleiben wird. Und dann haben Sie etwas gemacht was ich schon fast bewundere:  Die haben sich hingesetzt und ganz von vorne nochmal neu angefangen und nebenbei COD soweit gefixt das man es halbwegs vernünftig nutzen kann. Und diese Info haben Sie uns scheibchenweise "verkauft". Irgendwann kam dann halt die Entscheidung die "neue Version" wenn sie fertig ist nicht kostenlos als COD Patch rauszuhauen sondern mit neuem und alten Inhalt als neue Artikelnummer in den Handel zu bringen. Eine Firma braucht Geld und muss Entscheidungen treffen nicht immer sind es die richtigen oder die kundenfreundlichsten. Aber manchmal muss man sich zwischen Pest und Cholera entscheiden. Klar wäre es nett wenn jeder COD Kunde kostenlos sein COD auf die neue Engine aber beschränkt auf den alten Inhalt upgraden könnte aber auch das verursacht Aufwand in Entwicklung, Kontrolle, Kompatibilität etc. Und vorallem kommen die so niemals von der Zusage DX9 und XP weg die auf der Packung von COD draufsteht. Jede Wette auf der BOM Packung steht das nicht mehr drauf.

Offline I./ZG15_Falke

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #17 am: 02.Oktober.2012, 16:12 »
Im Grunde ist es so:
Wenn BoM funktioniert (da habe ich erhebliche Zweifel) dann werde ich die Fehlinvestition in CloD (entspricht dem Gegenwert von 5 Pizzen bei Luigi oder 2 Steaks bei Laurent) schnell vergessen.

Möglicherwiese muss ich wegen BoM auch auf die eine oder andere Pizza verzichten um herauszufinden, ob es funktioniert, cést la vie ...

Schade dass die Il2 Community sich wegen der Spaltung durch Mods und den Fehlstart von CloD mehr oder weniger aufgelöst hat. Vielleicht sind wir, die IL2 Spieler aber auch eine aussterbende Art. Wenn BoM funktioniert ist jedenfalls eine umgekehrte Entwicklung denkbar, schaung mer amoi.

Also Abwarten und Tee trinken. Btw. wenn CloD so weit hinter den angekündigten Features zurückbleibt, besteht bei mir kein Interesse an einer merged Installation.

Offline Himmsel

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #18 am: 02.Oktober.2012, 16:27 »
Ich freue mich schon auf unser aller Wiedersehen in BoM bei einer Tasse Blasentee  :P

Varrattu

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Re: Luthier hat auf viele Fragen geantwortet
« Antwort #19 am: 02.Oktober.2012, 16:29 »
...  wenn CloD so weit hinter den angekündigten Features zurückbleibt, besteht bei mir kein Interesse an einer merged Installation.

Dem schließe ich mich an.